What is natural talent?

Yeah I definitely do believe that some are more "naturally enabled" than others the evidence is all around us. In school I could not for the life of me play basketball, I could not shoot the darn ball if my life depended on it, I could barely dribble in a straight line and I practiced drills over and over, a kid comes over who never took practice serious and everything he does works. He made it look so easy, maybe I am wrong but I believe he was endowed to a greater degree to play ball than I was. Sure I could of worked my tail off and probably would of been o.k. but he would of excelled to a far greater degree with the same amount "disciplned"
practice. Maybe I am wrong oh well. I still suck(at basketball) and that is O.K. BUT MAN! I can cook better than my wife anyday! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Thank God!

Regards Digital

that's a little different I guess, u shared no passion towards "the game" itself, so there's no aim for you to get better at it(since u don't like it anyways)

when we speak about natural talent what are we reffering to?

Chops alone? Because in all honesty that's something anyone could develop by working on exercises(single speed around the kit-heck even coordination/independence is something that could be developed that way, its not a natural talent IMO), it's more of a mechanical thing rather than having a good pocket or being able to groove your ass off.....

Reading Skills would be what I consider to be "Natural Talent", yes it's something that could be worked on through different tutorial and reading courses.....but face it, sum people pickup on things "faster" than the others, it's a *natural talent* IMO [img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 02, 2003 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>

I think those we look up to have natural talent, AND drive, passion, love of the art, etc. I think EVERYONE has natural talent at something. We just have to figure it out. I think natural talent in terms of drumming is more about time and feel. Some people just FEEL groove better, almost automatically. Others have incredible TIME. Jeff Porcaro and Carlos Vega had BOTH.

I think Vinnie's natural talent is his ability to feel the pulse, always, no matter how he's blowing, AND because of his incredible subdivision feel, helping others he's playing with the feel the pulse.

Can we learn that by practice? Sure. But I think thoughs with natural talent just get it.

Danny

I think that everybody has a more ?natural talent? or ?ability? (or whatever the term) for something. This ability can be physical, mental, musical, emotional, business?It?s just something that you?ll learn, understand or do quicker, more effortlessly and better than the average.

I also think that there?s something out there for every person to be passionate about. Be it: art, science, sport, money?

The unlucky people will not find (or have the chance to find) neither their talent nor their passion throughout their life.

The unhappy people will find that they have an ability for something but no passion for it (to make it grow) or anything else.

The happy people will not necessarily find their natural ability but will have a passion for something that will light up their life even though they?re not the best or too good at it.

The lucky people (and probably also happy) will find a match between their talent and their passion. They will work at their craft through life with tremendous drive and excellence. These I think are the ones that have the potential to achieve greatness.

P.S.: I hope I got my point across on this more philosophical topic since English is not my first language.

Tombo

Read; Creating Minds: An Anatomy of Creativity Seen Through the Lives of Frued, Einstein, Picasso, Stravinsky, Eliot, Graham, and Ganghi.
by
Howard Gardner
Basic Books

If anything, read the chapter on Stravinsky. There is a definite pattern, especially in the early years with these GREATS.

could you give us a quick reader's digest version? [img]cool.gif[/img]

Bozzio I get what you are saying but no matter how much you want to do something, at times you just are not as enabled as others. Are there those whose physical reflexes are "naturally" more inherent or they are more flexible from the start sure! They have an immediate adavntage from the beginning. I liked basketball alot and worked my Butt off! for a couple years but hey I was not as good in a couple years as the other kid was in 2 weeks. Did he have better eye to hand coordination probably or did he have a better feel for guaging the distance of the basket probably, I assume he had a better release than I did from the beginning, I could see it right off the start.

Sure with hard "disciplined" practice you can get alot better that is for sure but people are mentally and physically and emotionally more adjusted from the get go to excel in certain realms whether math, writing, music, cooking teaching(man some people cannot teach at all their temperment is totally wrong) so on etc. But then again my personal philosophy is that we are all given unique diverse abilities to enhance one another, we were not meant to be "clones" on this earth Thank God. My belief is we all have our Strong points and points that are not as strong or obvious again does not mean with hard work we cannot get to another level but all of us just do certain things better and that is Cool with me. Great points and insightfulness by all on this subject.

Regards Digital

I tell you what, man. When I sit at work behind the computer terminal, and bang my head to write code, and there are guys next to me that can sit for 12 hours and bang out amazing work, and they really love it. They have a talent, and I certainly don't, as I have to work twice as hard to keep up with them. Through drive and discipline, I make it work, so that I can keep my job. I have a limited talent at writing computer code.

However, when I sit behind the drums, (And this is to say NOTHING of my ability on the kit relative to anyone else, so I'm not blowing my horn here.), everything feels right. I can lay off the drums for a week or two, but when I get back on, things just come very naturally to me. It's definitely the X factor, and I truly believe it comes from God, 'cause I sure as hell 'aint doing anything to make it happen!

I like to think of my ability (or lack thereof!) like The Force in Star Wars. No matter what music I listen to, from Zeppelin's Black Dog, to Rollins Band, to Handel's Messiah, to the Buddy Rich Band, I get very taken by the music. It's like I'm tapping in to that Musical Force, and it drives my love of the drums, and causes me to go through withdrawls if I dont play for more than 4 or 5 days. I know that I definitely see it in my son, since if there's even a commercial on TV with any groove to it, his feet are tapping, and his fingers are tapping (He even has a proper traditional grip!)

Anyways, I'll stop before I begin to sound like Kathy Lee Gifford.

I definitely think that some people are tuned in to "The Force" more than others. However, that should NEVER stop anyone from pursuing their dream to be a pro musician, or a hobbyist if that's what gives them joy. I know that having a set of drums in the basement kept me off the street, and out of juvie hall............

From the sounds of the CCEB review, I would tend to think that Vinnie has more raw God-given musical ability then Dave, since I've seen so many instances of him coming in almost totally cold (3 Quartets, Warren Cucarullo's Thanks To Frank Album, etc....) and just playing amazingly.

Dave seems to me to be someone who is very studious, and strives to play just the right thing (and does!), where Vinnie may be more inclined to go on auto-pilot, and "Use The Force"

Great posts guys....

Benny I agree with you.....

Natural Talent..
I'd have to say you can practice anything you want..If you take the time you will get there...
But some folks are more acclimated to playing instruments than others.....So those people tend to learn things faster......While we mortals have to take it slower....Call me idealistic but I firmly believe that if you give yourself an open mind on your instrument .With alot of practice, you can pull anything you want off....

For example:
I remember when I first heard Cuban Music I could not hang....three hard years later I am successfully playing in Latin jazz and Salsa ensembles.
When I first started studying Cuban Music I did not think that I would be able to hang....I just practiced and played with folks who knew that stuff.....and whala!!!
The same thing also happened to me when I heard Eye of the Beholder the first time...

So I am a firm believer that if you put your mind to it and respect your limits you can sooner exceed those limits and do anything you want on your instrument.......

But like it's been stated here...
"Your practice schedule has to be productive."

my 2 bits....

i share the apparently common idea that natural talent exists, but needs outside help to really come to full fruition.

i think i have a natural talent for music (not necessarily drums [img]graemlins/wonder.gif[/img] ) and what that means is that i seem to have the creative aspect in place. im full of ideas and a drive to create. i can pick up any instrument and have a degree of competancy on it. but unless i practice i wont have much of the technical ability.

my former drum instructor and i were talking when i first started with him. i told him that i what sounds i like, and the kinda thing i enjoy playing, and in an improv setting can play things intuitively that i cant when i try. that essentially i had it in me, but needed the tech skills to improve and hone my vocabulary. he had heard me play before and said that i had the hard part down. that practice of the basics and technical stuff is the easy part. thats how i define natural talent. (god i sound like a blowhard, not intended i swear!)

my girlfriend used to play drums in our band. she took lessons and could lay down a nice back beat. but she lacked natural talent. all she had was what she was instructed. thats someone being able to pull off a gig without the natural but with the technical. she's since stopped playing. it wasnt in her.

i think the "greats" have a degree of natural talent. i think its necessary to achieve "greatness". but i think they also took the time and energy to develop that. otherwise theyd be at their day jobs writing on forums [img]wink.gif[/img]